Speaker 1: 0:04

Shalom and welcome to Israel Policy Pod. I'm your host, shani Raishman, the Director of Strategic Initiatives and IPF Fatid at Israel Policy Forum. On this week's episode, we're going to hear directly from Yotam Cohen, whose brother, nimrod, was taken captive by Hamas on October 7th and is still being held hostage in Gaza. Yotam has worked tirelessly to secure the release of his brother and all of the remaining hostages. Every day that goes by without their release, these hostages are at greater risk of torture or death, and this episode serves as a critical reminder that every hostage has a family and a community that is anxiously waiting for their return. And while we celebrate Passover and commemorate the Jewish people's liberation from slavery in Egypt, we should remember that too many of us are not yet free. Hayotam, welcome to the Israel Policy Pod. Thank you for joining us.

Speaker 2: 0:50

Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1: 0:52

Our pleasure. We're speaking under very unfortunate circumstances, but we want to bring to light all the work you're doing to secure the release of Nimrod and all of the remaining hostages in Gaza. I was hoping you would start by telling us a little bit about who your brother is and anything you want us to know about.

Speaker 2: 1:06

So my little brother in Watkoim was kidnapped on the 7th of October. He was an IDF soldier stationed at the southern part of the Israeli-Gaza border between the two villages Nirim and Niraz. He was a tank crew member, stationed there with his platoon. It was the tank remember, stationed there with his platoon. On that morning, the 7th of October, saturday, they woke up to the sirens like half of.

Speaker 2: 1:31

Israel and being combat soldiers with the tank. They rushed to the border, to the bridge, on the fence, to shield the villages, to put themselves as a physical barrier, because those terrorists were already storming the villages and massacring and kidnapping the civilians behind the front lines, they put themselves. Unfortunately, they were massively outnumbered Only the four of them and my brother and three others against between two to three hundred terrorists.

Speaker 2: 2:00

They were massively outnumbered and their tank the tank engine was sabotaged. They were massively outnumbered and their tank the tank engine was sabotaged. So the tank was starting to get on fire and they had to open up the hatches in order to get some fresh air, and the terrorists managed to pull them out one by one. Out of the four of them, my brother was the only one to survive that day. The other three were killed and executed, but all four of them were taken hostages my brother alive, and the other three. Their bodies were also taken.

Speaker 2: 2:34

This happened at around 7, 7.30 am in the morning. It was more than a year and a half ago. My brother was 19 at the time. He's now 20. And the entire abduction was filmed by Hamas that morning and was uploaded to social media as a part of their psychological terror effort. And so we saw everything that morning. And ever since, we know that Nimrod is alive and we've been anxiously waiting for his return Me, my little sister, nimrod's twin her name is Romy and our two parents. We've all been doing everything we could, but unfortunately it hasn't been enough yet when did you know that he had been taken captive?

Speaker 2: 3:18

We saw the first pictures by Hamas. I think the first picture ever to be seen was the one of the burning tank, and so we recognized it was Nimrod's. But the first, I think the first evidence that made us sure was a video posted around 12 in that morning showing the entire abduction, and so we could see Nimrod's face and we knew for sure that he was the one to be arrested.

Speaker 1: 3:45

And your families received some signs of life. Is that right?

Speaker 2: 3:48

This was the initial evidence Two days after the IDF officers came to our house to declare that Nimrod is officially a hostage. Ever since, we got multiple life signs from returning hostages. The first ones were from hostages who came back on the first hostage deal on November 23. Two of them saw him in the tunnels in captivity, and I think that the most recent and the most, I think, dominant ones were from the so-called first phase, the recent hostage deal, from three hostages who came back and could tell us in detail the actual period of staying in captivity and how Nimrod has been doing. And I think a month ago, hamas has posted a video from captivity before the release of one of the hostages and his departure from from captivity and him saying goodbye to his brother, and we couldn't recognize him more than this video. Although his face was blurred, we recognized a tattoo he has on his right arm, and so we could determine that this is any more than a video and it was the first and only visual life sign we have received.

Speaker 1: 5:06

I know that you and your family have been very actively engaging with many governments, including the Israeli government, to try to push them to make a deal to secure the release of your brother and, of course, all of the others. What has that been like? Has there been any progress on that front? Of course we talk about this a lot in the podcast, neri and I that you know. Every few weeks we get some sort of hopeful sign, but sometimes it works out. Oftentimes it doesn't, of course. So I'm wondering what sort of progress has been made or any holdups you're seeing?

Speaker 2: 5:34

So first we have to say that most of the heart disease are released from captivity. So, even though our struggle is yet to end for many other families, they receive their loved ones. So in the general sense I think there is a progress in this bigger problem For us especially. Imorod, being a soldier, was kidnapped as a soldier. We knew right from the start that Imorod was going to be one of the last hostages to be released, especially in the living hostages category, because it is a symbol being a soldier in captivity. Right from the beginning, our family, we've advocated for a bigger, a comprehensive hostage deal. We've been saying right from the start that Israel should make one, a single hostage deal to ensure the release of all the hostages and, in return, end the war. Unfortunately, we're seeing that the Israeli government is limiting the negotiation talks only to partial deals. That would not guarantee the end of the war and therefore will not bring anyone home.

Speaker 3: 6:43

We've been saying.

Speaker 2: 6:44

I think, right after the first few months, that there is no actual intention for Israel to get all the hostages and end the war. From what we've been seeing and understanding, israel is trying to prolong the war for what we're seeing right now, endlessly and without an actual goal. This is why, especially our family, we've been very vocal, trying to promote and advocate for both in Israel and outside Israel for the idea of ending the war, putting as much public pressure as possible. Fortunately, right now we've not been successful yet.

Speaker 1: 7:24

Do you feel the support of the Israeli public and the people?

Speaker 2: 7:26

I think that this is a huge point of light. I think a point of hope for us. We are seeing all the recent polls in Israel in the major broadcasting or media channels saying that between 67 and 70-something percent the vast majority, almost 75% of Israelis are ending the risk of all the hostages and ending the war. So we're seeing this very much a stable statistics. In the past two weeks and in the past week we're seeing a new phenomenon of soldiers in reserve in the IDF or military personnel who were high-ranking officers, were high-ranking officers both in the army and other security agencies and the Israeli police with open letters publicly stating that they want the end of the war and the release of all the hostages. And it started from one letter that was published by former air pilots. This was the first letter. We're now at the 16th letter by I can't remember there are so many and it counts in the tens of thousands of people release of all hostages.

Speaker 1: 8:46

And he's actually held direct talks with Hamas and of course, he had some success securing the release in the beginning of his when he took office. So curious how you perceive America's role in these hostage negotiations.

Speaker 2: 9:12

So I think that everybody in Israel understood that the Americans have a big role to play in this negotiation. At first, I'd like to say that for me, as an Israeli citizen, this is very unfortunate. The only government that owes me so-called owes me something is really the government. I, as an Israeli citizen, have rights as an Israeli citizen and I should, I think, come to my government with demands and requests. The reason, my brother being one of them, the fact that we, as Israeli citizens I'm a brother of an IDF soldier who was kidnapped during active duty have to go to other countries and to plead to foreign leaders and foreign elected officials to help me in my eternal struggle in Israel, says how dire the situation is.

Speaker 2: 10:03

We had very high hopes when Trump entered office and I think in some sort of way, he delivered releasing 38 hostages, most of them living hostages, which is something that cannot be put aside. It's a very important thing, and two days ago, my father returned from New York. We're still, even these days, trying to do whatever we can to ensure more so-called foreign pressure on our government, because we believe that this is the only thing that can result in the release of my brother, and I hope that we'll see some results in the future. But again it is very sad for me as an Israeli citizen. I understand my government simply doesn't care enough about my brother's well-being, that we need other so-called agents or other forces to do something about this, but this is the situation we're in right now.

Speaker 3: 10:59

Okay, and we'll be right back after this brief message to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, advancing pragmatic US policy towards the conflict, us-israel relations and regional diplomacy. Among policymakers and community leaders, we promote policy measures endorsed by credible security experts, develop analysis and commentary, and convene programs that engage and educate leaders across the political, denominational and generational spectrums. Our Young Professionals Initiative, ipf-ateev, works to elevate the discourse among next-generation leaders by building community and facilitating engaging programs related to Israeli-Palestinian affairs. To learn more about our work, visit us online at israelpolicyforumorg and follow us on social media. If you rely on Israel Policy Forum for credible and nuanced analysis, please make a tax-deductible gift today at ipfli slash supportthepod or at the support the show link in the show notes.

Speaker 1: 12:12

What sort of pressure has your father been asking for? What was his experience like traveling to the States?

Speaker 2: 12:17

I think the experience is very positive when we go to other countries abroad, especially in the US.

Speaker 2: 12:26

People are very polite, very nice, very lovely, which is something that cannot be said about meetings with Israeli officials better in our government. What sort of pressure we require? And the same pressure that has been put by Trump that resulted in the first phase of the hostage deal. Trump threatening even both sides, both Hamas and Israel, saying you have a deadline to reach a hostage deal. The first deadline was the 20th of January, the day of Trump's entering office, and we saw that in that exact same day a deal was signed and I hope to see. I think the most positive outcome right now is to see more pressure like this Trump's giving a deadline and we see both sides sort of making the way towards it. And I think it's only massive pressure on both sides, both on Israel's side and Hamas' side, with the mediators who pressure on Egypt and Qatar to get this deal and pressure on Israel to agree for ending the war. This is the only thing that will result in a hostage deal and this is what we've been asking all along the way, with partial success.

Speaker 1: 13:34

How do you perceive the role of Qatar and Egypt in all of this?

Speaker 2: 13:49

Because of course, they are pretty active players in the negotiations too. I won't say an enemy state, but not so friendly of a state. They've been the mediators and we need them to get these thoughts that you do. Apart from that, I don't see any special connection with them. We've been asking both in the US and countries in Europe to put more pressure on the mediators, because they have such good relations with Hamas, to get them to some sort of an agreeing point somewhere in the middle. But behind that, me as a small citizen, I have no idea what is really going on behind closed doors.

Speaker 1: 14:27

What's your relationship with the other families been like? I imagine there's some sort of community that you've built. Do you go together to protest? Do you go together on these tours of the United States and to speak with Israeli leaders?

Speaker 2: 14:40

So at first there were more than 250 hostages. There were a lot of families, but as the time went on the amount of hostages in captivity has decreased. So right now there are only 59 hostages. And so we are a small community of families of hostages. We've been knowing each other for about a year and a half and so we're some sort of a community, a big family of sorts. For us, nimrod being a soldier, we have the even smaller sub-community of the families of the soldier hostages. We're going together to all the meetings with the Minister of Defense, with the Chief of Staff of the IDF. So this is our sub-community and everybody belongs to a small sub-community those who are kidnapped from the Novo Festival, the hostages from the villages, from the kibbutzim. Each kibbutz has its own community, but we operate, I think, in this big community of family hostages. Just Saturday night was the Passover evening and we had this dinner in the hostage square with other hostage families, simply to be together because we've become such a big family.

Speaker 1: 16:00

Do you find that there are very differing opinions regarding the contours of a deal? What risk sacrifices Israel should be making? What sort of pressure, or are people mostly aligned?

Speaker 2: 16:11

I think that at the beginning, there were various point of views regarding what should be done, especially regarding the fact that each family had their own political view and political opinion regarding what should be done. But I think that in this point of time I wouldn't say all the families, but the vast majority of the families agree or understand the simple fact that we won't see all the hostages, especially the living ones, at home without ensuring the end of the war. And so even those who find this pill hard to swallow or politically disagree with this notion, simply understood or, let's say, gave in to this reality and so that, if they want to see their son at home, they have to call for the end of the war, even if it's hard. And I think that, putting aside one, two, three families who are strongly against this for political and religious reasons, the other families are advocating for ending the war.

Speaker 1: 17:10

That makes a lot of sense. I think at the beginning of the war, many of us were under the impression that advancing a war could help release the hostages and that sort of pressure could work, and at this point I think most of us know that's unfortunately not, or for better or worse, it's just no longer the case and that a deal is really the only method that can achieve what we want. I'm curious what message you want to convey to the international community, any policymakers, about the importance of resolving the hostage crisis. Obviously this is very personal for you, but it also fits into a broader geopolitical context as well.

Speaker 2: 17:41

Of course, I have a cold skin in the game because my brother is a hostage, but what we've been trying to convey to world leaders is that, in contrary to what our government is saying, the vast majority of Israelis is pro-ending the war. 70% of Israelis want an immediate ceasefire and simply ending the war, because they understand that nothing good will come by continuing the war.

Speaker 2: 18:13

The vast majority of Israelis and our government is doing the exact opposite trying to prolong the war at any price and in doing so, resulting in more hostages killed, more civilians on both sides killed. And we want the world to know that the Israeli people want peace and want to rehabilitate the region, want to rehabilitate the state of Israel, and we, as Israeli, know that this cannot be done without the release of the hostages, because the release of the hostages is the first phase in a bigger rebuild and we want peace at the end of the day and we want to eradicate Hamas. But we understand this can no longer happen with military pressure. Like you said at the beginning, at the start of the war, 100% of the families were pro-military pressure.

Speaker 2: 19:03

I was a big supporter of the military pressure% of the families were pro-military pressure. I was a big supporter of the military pressure, to say the least. But we've understood the reality is very different and what I want the world people, the world leaders, to know is that when they call to the end of the war and for the immediate ceasefire, they have to know that they have the people of Israel agreeing them and supporting them, even though our government says otherwise. And our government for most parts, especially in this part does not reflect the will of the Israeli people and its opinion. This is the most important thing for us to convey.

Speaker 1: 19:39

How has your relationship been with Israeli media? Have you felt supported by them? Have you been in many conversations with them?

Speaker 2: 19:45

I think that after 7th of October, we found ourselves public figures whose opinions are looked after, and we found ourselves being we've been finding ourselves in all the major broadcasting channels and studios, which is a very weird feeling to switch from a very private person to a public figure with a public opinion. I think that generally, the media channels are very supportive. You can see the people behind this. The actual reporters take this very close to heart and actually feel us and feel our pain. They've been chatting with us and talking to us very personally how can they do more and what else can be done, and we had the feeling that they will do whatever needed to aid us in our struggle and to help us. Although having all these interviews in the Israel media channels is very exhausting and very tiring to jump between studios, the actual sense of support is very much ensuring.

Speaker 1: 20:50

Let me ask you directly. We work with the American Jewish community and policymakers in Washington. What's important for us to know? And I'll ask specifically about the American Jewish community, how can we be supportive?

Speaker 2: 21:01

I think that when we speak to Jewish communities both in the US and also in Europe, I almost get the feeling that they're sometimes misinformed or miseducated about what is really going on inside Israel, about the inside politics of Israel and even the fact that I said 70% of Israel support the end of the war. When we tell this to Jews both in the US and in Europe, they're very much surprised about it. They say how can this happen? The other side, the Palestinian side or the Hamas side, is the side that should logically to them, should support the ceasefire and the end of the war, and the Israel side should be the one saying we cannot stop the war. The Israeli side should be the one saying we cannot stop the war. This is what we've been trying to educate as much as possible, what is really going on inside Israeli politics, and I urge everyone who takes this close to heart and really cares about the Israeli people and Jewish people in general, really do your searching and read as much as possible Israeli media, israeli articles to know what is really going on, because what is happening inside Israel does not reflect what you see outside of Israel and all those who want to support the Israeli people and really want to support the state of Israel not the government of Israel should help us and especially us as hostage families, should help promoting the idea of a ceasefire and ending the war. Of course we're releasing all the hostages because, from what we understand, these things are coming together, always come together ceasefire and the hostage deal and the state of Israel is being in an ongoing war for a year and a half.

Speaker 2: 22:46

Both states of Israel and I think it's important to say that the civilians, the Palestinian civilians in Gaza. I think that, at the end of the day, we need this region to heal and we need to build something sustainable, because from the 7th of October, our people has been in an ongoing war without any chance to heal or rehabilitate or even rest for a little. Every couple of days, there are missiles entering Israel and there are terrorists, there are terror attacks and there are more soldiers dying in these multiple fronts. We're managing. It's very. I think it's the most important thing for Israel right now is to end the war and rethink how we're managing. I think it's the most important thing for Israel right now is to end the war and rethink how we're not destroying things, but how are we going to build?

Speaker 1: 23:30

And I'll just share on the public opinion polling that in Israeli media. You see almost weekly polling on the major news channels of the Israeli public opinions around the war and a hostage ceasefire deal. They are often not translated into English, although you can find them somewhere, but I just think it's important to say perhaps some of the source of the miscommunication. Thank you so much for your time, Yotam. If there's anything else you want to share, please do. I will just say it's been a privilege to be able to platform your voice and make sure that you are heard and your story is heard and, of course, we're always thinking and talking about and praying for and protesting for across communities the release of all the hostages, including Nimrod.

Speaker 2: 24:08

Thank you very much.

Speaker 1: 24:10

Thanks again to Yotam Cohen for sharing his brother Nimrod's story and his perspective on the hostage family's ongoing struggle to bring their loved ones home. 59 Israelis remain in captivity after an unimaginable 558 days. This Passover, as we remember the exodus from Egypt, we should also reflect on the joyous reunions of the hostages who did return home to their families this past year, and we pray that all the hostages remaining in captivity are going to see freedom in the year to come. Special thanks to our producer, jacob Gilman, and all of you who support Israel Policy Forum's work. Please like and rate this podcast and subscribe if you don't already, and Israel Policy Forum's work. Please like and rate this podcast and subscribe if you don't already, and do consider making a tax-deductible donation to Israel Policy Forum so we can keep being a credible source of analysis and ideas on issues such as these that we all care very deeply about. Most importantly, thank you for listening and chag sameach to all those celebrating. Thank you.